Listening in with … Pam Grout

Pam Grout has a thing about “the Dude.” And she’s talking much more broadly than just about the Jeff Bridges character from the movie The Big Lebowski. In her New York Times best-selling book E-Squared: Nine Do-It-Yourself Energy Experiments That Prove Your Thoughts Create Your Reality (Hay House, 2013), she explains that for her, the Dude is “the loving, abundant, totally hip force in the universe” commonly known as God. The book (recently republished as a 10th-anniversary edition) describes nine New Thought principles—with a little quantum physics tossed in—and simple experiments for readers to test out each one. It’s written in casual, down-to-earth language, and Grout clearly meant for readers to have fun with the process. In one chapter, she even includes an anecdote about Unity cofounder Myrtle Fillmore and her miraculous healing story. Here, Grout talks to Unity Magazine editor Katy Koontz about divine guidance, surrender, and the value of lightening up.

KATY KOONTZ: Although you were brought up in the Methodist church, you’ve been a decades-long student of both A Course in Miracles and Unity. Is that where you got the idea to write E-Squared?

PAM GROUT: You can trace all nine of the principles in E-Squared back to Unity teachings and A Course in Miracles. I had never heard of Unity until I moved to Kansas City after college. For fun, I took a Communiversity class offered by the University of Missouri–Kansas City on Gerald Jampolsky’s 1979 classic, Love Is Letting Go of Fear. The class met at Unity Temple on the Plaza, and the instructor talked a lot about Unity.

I had already plunged into metaphysics and was attending get-togethers at the metaphysical society in Kansas City. Intrigued by A Course in Miracles, I signed up for a monthlong work-study program at the Esalen Institute in California that focused on the channeled masterpiece that inspired Jampolsky’s book. Let’s just say I quickly discovered a bigger, more expansive spirituality than I’d learned as a Methodist preacher’s daughter.

I feel incredibly blessed to have been exposed to these principles so early in my career. As I say in E-Squared, it was painfully obvious that if I were going to make it in the fickle world of freelance writing, I was going to need some outside help—which is why I appointed God as the CEO of my career. I just kept throwing my fears and doubts into God’s inbox and asking God to lead the way. The more I turned it over, the clearer my path became.

KK: I think many of us have had that feeling of being led, and each time we get a new piece, it solidifies the idea.   

PG: Right, and we start with baby steps. They’re less confronting. Our egos are less tempted to get out the big guns, the “you-can’t-do-thats” and the “who-do-you-think-you-ares?” In looking back, I can hardly believe I kept trusting—especially with so much pressure from society to “get a real job.”

KK: How long were you practicing these principles before you decided to write E-Squared?

PG: For a few decades. In fact, I actually wrote the book that became E-Squared 10 years earlier. It was called God Doesn’t Have Bad Hair Days [Running Press, 2005]. It had 10 experiments instead of nine, but it was the same book. I had a publisher, an agent, the whole bit. And even though it debuted about the same time as The Secret [Atria Books, 2006], that version went out of print fairly quickly.

While that surprised me, I remained undeterred. I kept following my path, kept celebrating how lucky I was to be an independent freelance writer, making a living doing what I love. Rather than mope about the book’s demise, I went on and wrote three books for National Geographic.

A couple years later, my inner guidance nudged me to take another look at “that spiritual book you loved so much.” I changed the title and sent it to Hay House. And even though they offered me a paltry advance, I was secretly excited and said “yes.” This time around, the book took off like a bottle rocket. Readers began posting the results of their experiments on social media. Eventually, the book was translated into 40 languages, and I’ve given workshops all over the world (including in Japan, where screaming fans met me at the airport wearing my face on their heads).

KK: That really underscores the idea that when things don’t go the way you expect, hang on, because you might not have all the information yet. 

PG: Exactly. It’s easy to get discouraged and lose faith. But again, you have to surrender, you have to trust. And then, you have to let the Dude do the heavy lifting.

KK: You’re referring to your “The Dude Abides Principle,” which says there’s an invisible energy force and a field of infinite potentiality that we can tap into. What was one of your earliest experiences with that principle?

PG: I started with little things, like asking to find upfront parking spaces or four-leaf clovers. What I now refer to as the “nail miracle” was one of the first of those experiences to make a big impact on me. I had plucked my calendar off the wall a bit too eagerly and the tiny nail holding it up fell to the floor. I couldn’t find it, even after getting down on my hands and knees and searching like a maniac. I finally realized that my frustration wasn’t helping, so I gave up. “Dude,” I said, “this one’s for you.” When I woke up the next day, that little nail was nestled between my thumb and my index finger.

KK: That would have made a big impact on me too! You write that every single thought we have affects the field of potentiality, which you’ve nicknamed FP—an invisible field of intelligence and energy also known as the quantum field. How can we best learn to be conscious of the energy of our thoughts? 

PG: Thoughts float through our brains all the time. For the most part, they’re insignificant. But once we pluck a thought out and start putting our attention upon it, we animate it into our reality. Unfortunately, we tend to hang on to and animate thoughts that scare us, thoughts that focus on scarcity and limitation. We’ve built whole monuments to such thoughts. Instead, we need to let those thoughts float on by before we animate them. Just don’t hang on to them.

KK: What about our subconscious thoughts, which seem impossible to control?

PG: You can’t really control thoughts. It’s pointless to resist them. But you also don’t have to invite them in for martinis. The subconscious tends to parrot old paradigms and believe in past patterns. So if you start with small intentions, the subconscious is less likely to put up its dukes. For example, if you ask for a million dollars by sundown tomorrow, your subconscious is likely to roll its eyes and think, Eat my shorts.

These days, I rarely ask for specifics. I’ve learned to trust that the Dude, who happens to have a much bigger vantage point than I do, will keep dumping opportunities and gifts and blessings into my lap if I don’t block them by hanging on to old belief systems. My main job is to keep the pathways open.

KK: So it’s easier to seed your subconscious than to actually manipulate it.

PG: Exactly. Keep it light. Make it fun. That’s why most of the experiments I suggest in E-Squared are designed to last only 48 hours. Why turn it into a big hairy deal? It’s just, “Hey, Dude, show me your stuff.” I think people like the simplicity of that.

KK: Is that why you say in the book that the FP has a great sense of humor?

PG: Certainly, when it comes to manifestation, yes. People sometimes write to complain that an experiment didn’t work for them. They’re all, “Woe is me. What’s wrong with me?” So I often write back to encourage them to take it less seriously and play around with the experiments. I’ll often hear back that when they tried that, it worked. The Dude totally wants us to have fun and enjoy ourselves.

KK: That makes sense to me.

PG: Who would want a God without a sense of humor?

KK: Not me! You write a lot about getting signs, and you even write about seeing getting fired as a positive sign. How did that happen?

PG: I asked the Dude if I should pursue freelance writing full time. I was having some success, getting assignments with some of the bigger magazines. But I was hesitant to go all in. I requested clear, unmistakable guidance. And I got fired the next day. Now that’s a sign you can’t miss! And it was the best thing that could have happened.

None of us have enough information to really judge what’s good and bad, what’s positive or negative. We live in this expansive world with so much glory and beauty, but we collapse the wave (to borrow a term from quantum physics) to show us only what we believe is possible. There’s always so much more. We’re connected to everyone and everything in this giant energetic field, but we see ourselves as limited, separate from everyone else. And when we do that, we miss most of the blessings.

KK: We accept the narrow, restrictive view as just the way things are.

PG: Yes, that’s the paradigm of our culture. From the moment we’re born, we’re taught we are to be afraid, to be careful. Look at little kids. They’re bouncing around, fully alive, not worrying if their Lego tower looks as good as the other kid’s Lego tower. We’re trained to follow rules and see only these things and believe that only this thing is possible. Spirituality, above all else, is getting rid of the restrictions we’ve been taught.

KK: And of course, working with these principles doesn’t mean our lives become perfect, but it gives us tools to deal with the bad times.

PG: That’s very true. But when you say “bad times,” that’s a judgment, and our egos really love to dish up those determinations. Who’s to say what is good or bad? It always helps to see a bigger picture, to look beyond the world shown by our limited human eyes. You might have heard about my daughter Tasman, who died suddenly and unexpectedly from a cerebral aneurysm when she was 25. If I limited myself to the cultural story about death, my life would be all but over. Those kinds of judgments would keep me from staying connected to her and would shut me off from bigger possibilities.

If you’re looking at life with gratitude, you’re much closer to the resonant field of infinite potentiality. It’s a simple and effective way to join with God.

KK: That would include the foundation you set up after Tasman made her transition. Tell us about that.

PG: Talk about being guided. Not long after Taz passed, I was guided to start the Taz Grout 222 Foundation. It’s a long story, but she and I had a thing about the number 222. So each year on February 22, the foundation gives a grant to a person or organization that is doing something to change the consciousness of the world.

Right from the beginning, Taz has been working with me from the other side. Soon after her passing, I was scheduled to go to India with Tribes for Good, an activist group for young changemakers. My overriding thought was, How can I possibly do this? I was shattered, shred to pieces. Somehow, some way, I was guided to call my best friend from college, who agreed to accompany me.

Among other places, we went to the Taj Mahal. Turns out this marble mausoleum, one of the world’s seven wonders, was built as a monument of love for a mogul’s wife named Mumtaz. There’s Taz’s name. We learned it took 20,000 workers 22 years to build it, so there’s 222. Then we ended up at Sheroes Hangout, an inspiring café run by women who survived acid attacks. Talk about changing consciousness. These brave women have come out of hiding to run this café that offers free food, coffee, and tea. They give love every day despite this awful thing that happened to them. The first 222 Foundation grant, awarded on February 22, 2019, went to help these incredible women move to a bigger space in Agra. Taz, I believe, orchestrated the whole thing.

KK: In E-Squared, you write about the idea that sickness is optional, and you share Myrtle Fillmore’s amazing story of healing herself of tuberculosis. Did you get much pushback about that idea?

PG: I really didn’t. There may have been people who slammed the book shut and refused to read more, but I never heard from them. I shared Myrtle’s story to illustrate the healing power available to all of us. Most people live in what I call problem state. I prefer to live in possibility state. So much is possible once we quit blocking it with old programming.

KK: How do you answer people who think you’re saying they’re responsible for giving themselves cancer and the like? That’s a negative twist people often take when this conversation comes up.

PG: I would never ever blame anybody or want to make anybody feel guilty. In fact, guilt’s just going to cause more disturbance in the energetic field. Did I choose for Tasman to have her aneurysm? No. That was not in my consciousness, but it has led me to see a bigger picture. Life is so much more than our limited human bodies and perspectives. It’s like a pointillist painting. When you’re right up next to it, all you see are the dots. But as you step back, you see a larger, more beautiful picture.

KK: You also wrote Thank & Grow Rich: A 30-Day Experiment in Shameless Gratitude and Unabashed Joy (Hay House, 2016)—a takeoff on Napoleon Hill’s 1937 classic Think and Grow Rich—about the importance of gratitude. Can you address that?

PG: If you’re looking at life with gratitude, you’re much closer to the resonant field of infinite potentiality. It’s a simple and effective way to join with God. To me, gratitude is everything. I think it was Meister Eckhart who said, “If the only prayer you ever say is ‘thank you,’ it will be enough.”

Look at it this way: What are the odds that we’re even here on this little dot in this giant cosmos? How lucky are we to be experiencing this glorious thing called life?

Pam Grout is the New York Times best-selling author of E-Squared, Thank & Grow Rich, The Course in Miracles Experiment: A Starter Kit for Rewiring Your Mind (and Therefore the World) (Hay House, 2020), and E-Cubed: Nine More Energy Experiments That Prove Manifesting Magic and Miracles Is Your Full-Time Gig (Hay House, 2014), among others. She is also the founder of the Taz Grout 222 Foundation, which supports those using creative endeavors to change the consciousness of the world. Visit pamgrout.com.

This article appeared in Unity Magazine®.